Leisa: 00:01

Hey, besties. My name's Lisa.

Tamara: 00:03

And my name's Tamara, and we're BFFs.

Leisa: 00:06

Tamara and I met when we were about 12 years old growing up in good old Fairbanks, Alaska.

Tamara: 00:11

And we've been best friends forever since.

Leisa: 00:13

That's right. And that's why we've decided to have some fun, friendly conversations with the bestest of best friends.

Tamara: 00:18

We'll talk about how we became best friends, our experiences together, and have other best friends on the show to share how they met. Who knows? You never

Leisa: 00:27

know when you'll meet your next BFF.

Tamara: 00:30

Now let's get into it, how I met my BFF.

Leisa: 00:34

Welcome to another episode of how I met my BFF. Hi, Tamara.

Tamara: 00:40

Hey, Lisa. How's it going?

Leisa: 00:42

It's good. So last night, I had a karaoke party. Well, it was at my friend's house, and I know that you have a karaoke machine. I don't have a karaoke machine. But what was so funny is that Mark, last night we got home, he's like looking them up online.

Leisa: 01:00

He's like, what do you think about this karaoke machine? I said, do not buy me a karaoke machine because if you do, I will not get anything done. Because I will just be literally singing my little heart out for all day long. I am so addicted to it. It's us that we just keep it at someone else's house.

Leisa: 01:20

And we have my my girlfriend who had the little it was a cupcake karaoke margarita parties, flash flash party. Like, just come over tonight. We're doing cupcakes, karaoke, and margaritas. I'm like, that sounds like my kind of party. So we go over there, and her her daughter's 10 years old.

Leisa: 01:38

So she and I like to sing Pink Pony Club together. And other we have other favorites, but that was our that's our grand finale, Pink Pony Club. So Nice.

Jenna Udenberg: 01:50

The makeup. What about you? What's going on?

Tamara: 01:54

Oh, you know, just living the life of luxury. Been really busy pruning in the vineyard. It's a lot of work, and it's getting warmer here in Montana. So we need to get it done before it gets too warm. So I have scars and scratches.

Tamara: 02:15

And, yeah, I've just been doing that and then lots of baseball and track. So fun times. Yeah. No worries. Mhmm.

Leisa: 02:25

Yeah. Baseball's one of those tricky ones be or even, you know, track too. Baseball, it's like the practices and then the games are so long versus, like, if they just sign up for, like, like, Ariana would take gymnastics. It was one hour a week. That's it.

Leisa: 02:42

Yeah. I know that gymnastics as if a person is more advanced, of course, it can be a bigger commitment. But, oh, baseball, soccer, time suck.

Tamara: 02:51

Yeah. And then football. Yeah. It's been a lot. So very busy.

Tamara: 02:56

He has a game this evening. He's pitching, so very exciting. We're at the official stadium. And then tomorrow, so just then baseball week. But, anyways, all is good.

Leisa: 03:08

Okay. Well, I'm sure that's what you get for having a son so talented. And daughters, all all your daughters are talented too. But, yeah, Everett really, he's kinda just good at everything. So shout out Everett.

Leisa: 03:21

You're listening, Everett, let your mom know. Give her a big hug. This was your test. Probably. Anyway, I'm so excited to have our guests today.

Leisa: 03:34

We've got Jamie and Jenna, Gemma and Jamie. Jamie, welcome to our show. Hello. There.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 03:42

Thank you for having us.

Leisa: 03:44

Yes. We're excited to hear your story. And I know Jamie or excuse me, Jenna was the one who reached out to me first. So, Jenna, why don't you give us a little insight on how you and Jamie met? And then we're gonna hear Jamie's perspective.

Jenna Udenberg: 03:59

Yeah. So I met Jamie in a physical therapy pool. I was like about 12 years old. We had the same physical therapist at our local rehab center. And she's like, oh, you have juvenile arthritis.

Jenna Udenberg: 04:16

You need to meet this other girl who also has juvenile arthritis. And she's four years older than you. So maybe you guys will hit it off. And so yeah. The the troublesome duo of, like, ganging up on her and and doing all the things inspired greatness.

Jenna Udenberg: 04:31

So we're still in touch with her today. It's been a great long story of of the three of us. But every time she sees us together or hears that we're working together or having recent shenanigans, she's like, what did I create all those years ago? So Oh my god. Good things.

Leisa: 04:47

Oh, okay. So I have so many questions. But, Jamie, why don't you tell us your version of the story?

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 04:53

Oh, well, it's not very different. But I I do remember so, the the physical therapist, I remember her saying, okay. So, got this other person that we're gonna do, you know, kinda PT at the same time, but I think it's gonna work. And pool therapy, you know, especially when we were younger was definitely the the thing to do. It was super helpful.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 05:19

And the pool that we were using at the time was a small pool. It was at Saint Scholastica, kind of Benedictine Center in Duluth, and it was a very interesting spot in its, you know, in itself. So you kinda see more, I would say, older people at the time. And so having kinda younger kids like us around was, I think, unique. But I remember Janelle and I kinda like she said, it was easy to kinda spin what is usually like physical torture.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 05:59

It's what we call physical therapy. Spin it around and start torturing the PT herself.

Leisa: 06:09

Oh my god. So what prompted you to become I I get that you're in the same space and you kinda have a commonality, but that doesn't always mean that you become friends. Right? So what was it about each of each other's personalities that that made it become a friendship? Jenna, do you wanna take that one?

Jenna Udenberg: 06:32

Yeah. I mean, even though I was the same age as Jamie's younger sister, because she's the oldest in the family and I'm the youngest in mine, so I think that kind of just played naturally into our birth orders. But Jamie was always great. If Lisa, our PT, was torturing us and I was, you know, in a lot of pain or starting to cry, Jamie would be like, look at me over here. Look at me over here.

Jenna Udenberg: 06:55

Come and stretch me or come and torture me. And then I'd go and cry over in the corner. Then after I was good, then it'd be like, hey, Lisa. Now I'm free. Like, come torture me.

Jenna Udenberg: 07:05

And I always remember so we had these clams that you would throw that she would throw to the bottom of the pool. And if you got the clam that had a certain color pearl in it, then you'd get a sucker at the end. Well, I'm sure Jamie at 16 really didn't care about the sucker, but me as a 12 year old was like, hot diggity. I'm gonna get that clam. So then Lisa would have to stand on the clam.

Jenna Udenberg: 07:25

So then I'd, like, dive down and tickle her feet so I could get Jamie's clam. So I was kinda like the little the little shtink, for lack of better words. And but it was all it was all good and all good fun. And I think Jamie and I have great similar personalities and yet opposing as well. I was always the more scaredy cat, introverted, hiding away type personality, much more of like the the wallflower if we were to be at a at a party or dance or anything like that.

Jenna Udenberg: 07:56

Where Jamie is just more like that cool, calm, collected, ready to do all the things and and more of an extroverted personality when we're together. So it was great complementary personalities, think.

Leisa: 08:10

How about you, Jamie? What's your perspective on how you started to become friends just beyond having something in common?

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 08:19

We took them as a big challenge. So now that you remind me, Jenna, about the clean homes, I remember being so annoyed because I had been doing this for a long time. You know what I mean? Like, this was okay by the time I met Jenna for for me. And so I think maybe it was like the the bigger kid in the pool, and now Jenna comes along with a lot of spunk and a little sister attitude.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 08:44

And I was like, who is this girl? And why is she so annoying? I'm gonna work this much harder to show her, you know, that I no. I'm still the big kid in the pool. But I think I think along with that, like Jenna said, just, naturally taking it, Jenelle, maybe as a little sister, but also I don't know.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 09:17

Like, you know, when you have those commonalities, you also become kind of a safe space for each other. And in that, I think a friendship really grows just naturally out of that.

Tamara: 09:33

And you two work together. Is that correct? Do you have a nonprofit organization together?

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 09:39

We do. Yeah. So Jenna founded Above and Beyond with you, and it is it's still a small a small nonprofit. We're we're brand new. So still building up, and sewing on the on the board.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 09:57

And

Tamara: 09:59

what what is what do you guys do? What does the organization represent?

Jenna Udenberg: 10:06

Yeah. So sure. So our goal is to increase accessibility and inclusion on the North Shore and beyond. So we you know, being that Jamie and I are both manual wheelchair users, you know, we stick primarily in the wheelhouse, ba dum bum ching, mobility disabilities and mobility aids. But we really strive to be a conduit for other aspects of disability community and culture and trying to be, really networked and connected.

Jenna Udenberg: 10:33

So that way when different agencies or organizations or businesses or individuals come to us and ask about either increasing accessibility within their communities or within their organizations, you know, what can that look like? That we're, you know, very honest of, you know, we're we're about mobility disabilities. That's our wheelhouse, but we're willing to, you know, interact and bring in other partners that can help with other aspects of disability community and culture. And it was great. You know?

Jenna Udenberg: 11:01

Yeah. I'm I'm the founder of it for the first year. Was the president, but, you know, trying to build something, trying to do the work, and trying to develop your own leadership skills and your own other soft skills in it, was like, I can't be the president and the leader and the founder and the doer. And so it's just a great natural thing to be like, alright, James. How do you feel about being a president and, like, doing the thing?

Jenna Udenberg: 11:23

So it's been great. You know? We spend way more hours together than we probably ever have in our whole friendship around this, around the work, around whatever. So even last night, we're like, maybe we need to schedule a Zoom call to, like, do the whole friend thing for a while before going on the BFF podcast. So, yeah, so it's really great to to share this work together.

Jenna Udenberg: 11:45

And then, you know, even though we have the same diagnosis, our our journey through that was very different. You know, Jamie was diagnosed at age two. I was diagnosed at age seven. And so even though there's some several commonalities, there's a lot of difference. And so Jamie was always the adventurer going to summer camps that, you know, camp courage down in the cities and and doing those kinds of things.

Jenna Udenberg: 12:09

And I was really more of the rural country bumpkin. I don't I don't know these things. I'm scared of those things. I have anxiety over those things before those were terms we used every day. But then as my medical world changed, then I became more of like the medical surgical adventurer person.

Jenna Udenberg: 12:27

And then I would say when I became a Blandin community leader and a twenty twenty Bush fellow, that's really when things really opened up for me, and I felt more of, like, the Jamie personality. So it's just been great of, you know, leaning on each other throughout the whole journey, but then also, like, seeing our personalities and seeing different things change and morph as you spend more time with your BFF.

Leisa: 12:54

I was gonna ask kind of backtracking to the I just have a question about the pool therapy. You said, oh, that's something they used to use a long time ago. Is that something they still use for, juvenile, arthritic individuals?

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 13:10

I I would say yes. So for for youth and adults, I think, with rheumatoid arthritis, I think pool therapy. You know? Pool therapy usually means that the pool is a therapeutic pool, and then the water is warmer than your typical, like, pool. And so along with that, just being in water, you know, there's that buoyancy.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 13:33

You're not fighting gravity. So it's really cool.

Leisa: 13:37

Did you find that it was helpful?

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 13:40

Absolutely. Yes.

Leisa: 13:42

So I I was like, I know I know physical therapy can be, like you said, the physical torture, but I'm like, well and if there's a payoff, yay. I think that's a good thing. Right? Okay. Cool.

Leisa: 13:55

And then I was gonna ask, how did you go from when you met and started becoming friends, how did it evolve into a best friendship? Jamie, do you wanna kick us off for that?

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 14:12

So I think, you know, like Jenna had talked about, I was a little bit more on the adventurous side as far as outdoors and sports and all that good stuff. But I was able to kinda pull Jenna along with me, and Jenna got into wheelchair basketball with me. And and so we had some adventures around that. We went to, like, a wheelchair basketball camp tournament, actually, for a weekend. And I think it just kind of grew from there.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 14:52

You know, we started becoming and it wasn't at that point, then it wasn't all about, oh, we're just kinda sharing PT time, but we're getting to know each other outside of physical therapy. Right? So I started doing wheelchair basketball together, and then, you know, just kinda your typical things that you do as teenagers. Right? Go to movies together.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 15:17

And then, but just kind of we I feel like we're in just a constant circle. Right? Where we're kind of following each other around a little bit. Not all the time. For sure, not all the time, but in some ways.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 15:30

So we attended the same college. So as I was kind of leaving college, Jenna was starting college. And then we actually ended up getting an apartment together once I was done with college for a little bit. So it just kinda kept evolving. That's like that over time.

Leisa: 15:52

Beautiful. What about you, Jenna? When did you start to feel like it was evolving into a best friendship?

Jenna Udenberg: 15:58

Yeah, I would say, you know, a lot of our formative memories are around wheelchair basketball for sure. Jamie was always such a champion of disability culture and community. And so eventually in that space, you know, like, yeah, she took me under her wing and then it was just like, alright, Jenna, now you gotta go and have conversations with someone else. And I'm not gonna this is your practice to to not be over by me. Go go and do a thing.

Jenna Udenberg: 16:24

And so that that was really great. And oh, I had a great one. I know it just went away. Maybe it'll come back. But, yeah, like Jamie said, you know, it just constantly evolved.

Jenna Udenberg: 16:37

And, you know, Jamie's such a great mentor type personality. She's just a great, like, overall human being of just, like, come as you are. And however you're showing up today is cool. And if you show up differently tomorrow, cool. If you show up the same tomorrow, cool.

Jenna Udenberg: 16:57

And so just having that refreshing personality type, I had never really been around that before. Very inclusive, very welcoming, very bringing everybody in, making sure everybody felt like they're welcomed. And this is back in, like, the early nineties. Right? So our friendship developed on a goldenrod colored phone in my parents' kitchen, and we'd be on the phone for, like, hours on end, and they'd be like, oh, she's on with Jamie.

Jenna Udenberg: 17:21

And so Jamie herself even even has this, you know, shtick that you'll say with my family like, hey, mom. You're a little light on paying me to be Jenna's friend. Hey, mom. Like, you know, what about all these things? And, you know, Jamie's family is very similar with me.

Jenna Udenberg: 17:40

We don't have necessarily that same shtick. But, you know, when we see each other in community when we're at medical, you know, places or whatever, her dad's always so cute.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 17:47

That's Jamie's friend over there. I think her name starts with a j,

Jenna Udenberg: 17:53

you know, because our family you know, our parents are in their seventies and eighties now. So but it's just it's just awesome. And so very interesting as we've shared, even though we're in different birth order, there's so many similarities within our family. So that's also been great fodder that, you know, if our siblings are listening, too bad. But, you know, like, there's just commonalities that we can share and and commiserate with.

Jenna Udenberg: 18:15

So

Leisa: 18:17

I I know Tamara and I can relate to that. A lot of times I mean, we both have siblings, and we are closer to each other. You know, we have a very sisterly closeness that of goes beyond friendship. Right? It sounds like that's

Jenna Udenberg: 18:37

what you guys have too. Yeah. And I think especially for my family because they didn't always know how to deal with my disability, especially when I was new. Was like, maybe you need to call Jamie. And then eventually Jamie and I would team up and be like, my parents, maybe you need to call and talk to Jamie's parents.

Jenna Udenberg: 18:53

Because it was, you know, very mutually, know, beneficial.

Leisa: 18:58

That's so cool.

Tamara: 19:00

Now that's great. You guys have been able to to support one another, you know, not just in your friendship, but just in, you know, having to deal with your disability and how lucky. I don't I'm sure a lot of people don't necessarily get that. So that's amazing.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 19:18

Yeah. And growing up, like Jenna said, in the in the early nineties, like, you know, like, in the early nineties, in Northern Minnesota, there there wasn't a lot of people like us. And so you you know, once you kind of find your people, you you kinda stick together sometimes. And I have to I always have to laugh because, you know, while our our families got to talk to each other and I got to talk to Jenna's parents and she talk talk to mine, I think at some point, and Jenna's parents are like, why are you letting Jenna do this and take this trip to another state? You're not a bad influence because she's adventuring out.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 20:04

So, you know, it wasn't just about leaning on each other as far as, you know, learning tips and tricks of having rheumatoid arthritis, but also just learn about, you know, as a human being and get to kinda challenge each other and make each other explore the world a little bit more.

Leisa: 20:22

And I was thinking about this kind of a weather thing because Tamara and I grew up in Alaska. You guys are in, you know, one's in Minnesota, one's in Wisconsin. And and as we're thinking about, you know, wheelchair accessibility, the snow has must make a whole another level of difficulty with snow and ice. Right? So how do you combat that?

Leisa: 20:45

I just I I hadn't really thought about that until our conversation. Jenna, do you wanna tackle that one?

Jenna Udenberg: 20:54

Sure. It's like a whole another level of Jumanji, let's be honest. Right? Yeah. So even on a good day, on good weather or not winter, life has lots of unexpected barriers and opportunities.

Jenna Udenberg: 21:06

But, yeah, then you add winter and just lack of awareness of, you know, business owners or individuals that are homeowners, you know, when it comes to sidewalks and curb cuts and parking lots and even like snowplow people. Like, I can't count how many times this this winter up in Northern Minnesota, and we didn't have a ton of snow as opposed to, like, two years ago when we broke records and it was a hot mess. A lot of the snowplow companies were like, there's no way to put the snow. Oh, guess what? We're gonna put it over here in accessible parking cause that's at the end of the lot.

Jenna Udenberg: 21:39

And, oh, a lot of people don't use that. So what does it matter? Or they don't keep the access aisles really clear. So for many years, I was kinda stubborn, and I was like, I'm gonna be a car user as long as I can. I'm not gonna go to an adapted modified van.

Jenna Udenberg: 21:55

I'm gonna risk my life transferring from my manual wheelchair into my car on icy, gross, nasty spaces. And then once I got my van, I was like, what was I thinking? Why was I stubborn? Transferring inside in a safe space is, like, so much more, like, beneficial for me. But, yeah, it's just a hot mess.

Jenna Udenberg: 22:16

And and then, again, a lot of it, at least up here in the communities that I live and thrive in, is is just lack of awareness, less lack of understanding. And then like you said, once people think about it and then go, oh, well, if this is hard for me as an ambulatory person, how much harder is it for semi ambulatory or folks using chairs or walkers or what have you? So, yeah, it's every season brings different things. And then the thing that I'm dealing with now that, yeah, it's April when we're recording, but there's still, you know, all the grits and all the sand and all that, and that's even, like, more slippery for us. So now it's like the education of, like, when that season is done, you have to go and sweep because that's also a liability and a safety issue for folks.

Tamara: 23:01

Oh, yeah. But I have a client who has she just got a well, like, a van for her to a wheelchair. And what was shocking was how much insurances for for your vans. Like, it's pretty crazy. So, yeah, I feel for you on that.

Tamara: 23:23

That's hard. Well, so to kinda wrap up, if you guys were together and you were in the same spot, Jamie, what would you guys go do for fun?

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 23:37

So the first thing that comes to mind is, you know, going out and getting some really good Mexican food, and spending hours just chatting because, hey, we can get lost as I'm sure. You know, you and Lisa are the same, but we can get lost chatting for hours and hours. I told my husband, okay. I'm gonna get on a call with, and he's like, okay. I'll see you tomorrow.

Jaime Head-MacAlister: 24:03

But so I think grabbing some some good Mexican food and and just chatting. Maybe heading down like, if I was up, let's say, in the Louvre, heading down to the lake, or few harbors heading to the lake, because Lake Superior is absolutely gorgeous. If you've never been up here, you should definitely check it out. What do you think, Jenna?

Jenna Udenberg: 24:27

I would totally agree with that. I would also add that we'd play some kind of interesting game and the competitiveness in us would come out whether it's Uno Flip or some other interesting card or board game. And I would say if it was an overnight, we would definitely be watching some kind Polly Shorner movie reliving all the things that created our friendship and be laughing at our PT Lisa and texting her to be like, yeah. So we're watching son-in-law dot dot dot. So, yeah, all the different inside jokes we'd be laughing.

Jenna Udenberg: 24:59

Just like last night, two hour scheduled meeting, four and a half hours later, my voice is a little more raspy than it normally would be for a podcast, but it's all good. So

Leisa: 25:10

Oh, I love that you still have fun together and can be silly, but also be promoting a really powerful organization and bringing more accessibility and understanding and inclusivity to wheelchair accessibility and all the mobility accessibility, all those things. That's that's really cool that you're that you're working together doing that. I love I love that story. So thank you so much for being on our show, and besties, we'll see you soon. Bye, everybody.

Tamara: 25:40

Bye.

Leisa: 25:44

Hey, Bestie. Thanks for listening. If you like this episode, be sure to hit that subscribe button to get notified of new episodes and check out cool Bestie gift ideas at howImetmybff.com.

Tamara: 25:54

That's right. And also leave us a review. Those reviews help us out a lot and are one of the best ways to support us.

Leisa: 26:01

Yes. And if you have a fun story about how you met your b f f, send us an email at info@howImetmybff.com. We would love to hear about it.

Tamara: 26:09

Definitely. And, hey, maybe we'll have you on our next episode.

Leisa: 26:14

That would be awesome. Until next time.

Tamara: 26:16

Love you, BFFs.